DENNIS BUTIC (MCGI) DEFEATED BENFRANCIS RATZBERG (CATHOLIC) REGARDING GREAT BABYLON

I’ll post the catholic rebuttal on my post. We have been discussing this in the group CATHOLIC TRUTH EXPLAINED WITH CHARITY wherein they kicked me out deliberately without any rational excuse. Actually, they ate dust, and were totally demolished yet now they’re trying some late damage control. They were just attempting to do it to actually deceive people. I’ll show you. I’ll answer in between topics.

  • My answer would be in this format.

Here goes….

DENIS BUTIC, THE SAVAGE WOLF OF SORIANO, FAILED ONCE AGAIN TO PROVE THAT VATICAN IS THE WHORE OF BABYLON By Benfrancis Ratzbert

1 hour ago by splendor16180

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    Vatican, the seat of Christianity in Rome… The Church of Rome is apostolic in origin and well praised by St. Paul.

     

    Benfrancis Ratzberg

    THE SAVAGE WOLF of ANG DATING DAAN (Job 22:15) ATTACKS AGAIN, BUT FAILS. HE THINKS THAT THE VATICAN, AND NOT JERUSALEM, WAS THE WHORE CALLED BABYLON.

    Reply to Dennis Butic 109

    DENNIS: //JERUSALEM IS NOT GREAT BABYLON//

    RATZBERG: WRONG!

    THE GREAT CITY, OR BABYLON, was the PLACE WHERE THE LORD WAS CRUCIFIED. (Rev. 11:8).

    Just believe what the BIBLE said, Dennis Butic.

    Since YOU DON’T BELIEVE the BIBLE, then YOU HAVE to PROVE that JESUS was CRUCIFIED in the VATICAN.

    Try it.

    _____________

    DENNIS COMMENTARY:

    • I said, Jerusalem cannot be great Babylon bec of this simple reason: GREAT BABYLON, THE LAND ITSELF, WONT EVER BE FOUND AFTER ITS DESTRUCTION. Jerusalem, allegedly great babylon, after 70AD, the alleged destruction of great Babylon, was still existing, therefore it is not the great Babylon of the bible meant to be permanently lost.
    • Revelation 18:10,16-19,21-23
    • [18]And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
    • [19]And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
    • [21]And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
    • [22]And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
    • [23]And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

    • As you can see, Great Babylon speaks of something that has craftsmen or merchandise and likewise millstones. It speaks of a literal land as emphasized it would be desolate, wherein there would never be craftsmen and any crafts or businesses in it. Therefore it speaks of a literal land and God said, it would be thrown down AND SHALL NEVER BE FOUND, meaning, after its destruction it would permanently be a lost, unfound land. It was not so with Jerusalem. By saying it would be desolate means, it is an existing matter that has no people in it. Jerusalem as speaking of the old Jerusalem’s religion-political aspect as Great Babylon was not so in matters of being something desolated bec if that is the case it should have been a reality that old jerusalem’s spiritual-political aspect is still an existing reality wherein while it exists it is desolate. As you will read further, their claim is that old jerusalem’s spiritual-political power as being great babylon would be gone, so how come is it desolate if its gone? An inexistent matter cannot be desolate bec none of it exists wherein it could be desolate. Something desolated is something that exists and has then no people in it. But they say old jerusalem’s piritual-political aspect is gone therefore it was not the great babylon referred to as desolate.

    Reply to Dennis Butic 110

    DENNIS: //The beast destroys the whore of babylon.

    REV 17:16 THE TEN HORNS WHICH THOU SAWEST UPON THE BEAST, THESE SHALL HATE THE WHORE AND SHALL MAKE HER DESOLATE AND NAKED AND SHALL EAT HER FLESH AND BURN HER WITH FIRE.

    Catholics say, it refers to Rome destroying jerusalem in 70 AD. Thus the destruction of jerusalem is the destruction of great babylon, the whore.//

    RATZBERG: CORRECT.

    BECAUSE the BIBLE POINTED to JERUSALEM as the GREAT CITY or BABYLON WHERE the LORD WAS CRUCIFIED. THAT’S VERY CLEAR.

    As I SAID, BELIEVE WHAT THE BIBLE SAID.

    ______________________

    DENNIS COMMENTARY:

    • Jerusalem is called the great city as it say: 
    • Revelation 11:8
    • [8]And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

    • Babylon is also the great city as it say:
    • Revelation 17:18
    • [18]And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

    • New jerusalem is likewise the great city as it say:
    • Revelation 21:10
    • [10]And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

    • DO YOU MEAN, ALL THESE GREAT CITY IS GREAT BABYLON INCLUDING NEW JERUSALEM, A HOLY SANCTUARY?
    • No! Right? Therefore it doesn’t follow that whenever the bible mention the term the great city it doesn’t mean it speaks of one specific city jerusalem. How come? Bec jerusalem as a land is still known and existing whereas great babylon would be permanently lost.
    • Besides the term the president is not a sole title privilege of one person but of many rulers so why would the term the great city speaks of one city only?
    • It doesn’t makes any sense. These are part of my arguments that these CFD’s in their group cannot fathom to destroy. 

    Reply to Dennis Butic 111

    DENNIS: //This did not happen to jerusalem:

    REV 18:3 FOR ALL NATIONS HAVE DRUNK OF THE WRATH OF HER FORNICATION There was never a time that all nations fornicate with jerusalem. Thus it cannot be the great babylon.//

    RATZBERG: WRONG.

    EZEKIEL 16:15-28 DESCRIBES JERUSALEM AS A PROSTITUTE WHO FORNICATED WITH THE EGYPTIANS, ASSYRIANS, BABYLONIANS, VISITORS, AND WITH JUST ANYBODY WHO PASSES BY HER.

    BASA:

    15 You learned that you were attractive enough to have any man you wanted, so you offered yourself to every passerby.[e] 16 You made shrines for yourself and decorated them with some of your clothes. That’s where you took your visitors to have sex with them. These things should never have happened![f]

    17 You made idols out of the gold and silver jewelry I gave you, then you sinned by worshiping those idols. 18 You dressed them in the clothes you got from me, and you offered them the olive oil and incense I gave you. 19 I supplied you with fine flour, olive oil, and honey, but you sacrificed it all as offerings to please those idols. I, the LORD God, watched this happen.

    20 But you did something even worse than that—you sacrificed your own children to those idols! 21 You slaughtered my children, so you could offer them as sacrifices. 22 You were so busy sinning and being a prostitute that you refused to think about the days when you were young and were rolling around naked in your own blood.

    23 Now I, the LORD God, say you are doomed! Not only did you do these evil things, 24 but you also built places on every street corner 25 where you disgraced yourself by having sex with anyone who walked by. And you did that more and more every day! 26 To make me angry, you even offered yourself to Egyptians, who were always ready to sleep with you.

    27 So I punished you by letting those greedy Philistine enemies take over some of your territory. But even they were offended by your disgusting behavior.

    28 You couldn’t get enough sex, so you chased after Assyrians and slept with them. You still weren’t satisfied, 29 so you went after Babylonians. But those merchants could not satisfy you either.

    ________________

    DENNIS COMMENTARY:

    • Nope. As you can see ALL NATIONS FORNICATES WITH GREAT BABYLON which never happened to Jerusalem. During Jerusalem 70AD there were natives already of ifugao making rice terraces yet nowhere in history did it recorded any Filipino that journeyed to Jerusalem before 70AD for fornication! It means ALL NATION fornicating with jerusalem never happened at all before 70AD nullifying the trying-hard to redeem face Benfranciz Ratzberg argument

    Reply to Dennis Butic 112

    DENNIS: //Catholics argue that “all nations” is a hyperbole.Wrong. God don’t use hyperbole.//

    RATZBERG: WRONG AGAIN.

    LET ME GIVE EXAMPLES of HYPERBOLES in the BIBLE.

    BASA:

    1.) Psalm 48:2: “Beautiful in its loftiness, the JOY OF THE WHOLE EARTH, like the heights of Zaphon is Mount Zion, the city of the Great King (Jerusalem).”

    2.) Mark 1:4-5: “4 John the baptizer appeared[a] in the wilderness, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5 And PEOPLE FROM THE WHOLE JUDEAN COUNTRYSIDE and ALL THE PEOPLE OF JERUSALEM were going out to him, and were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.”

    3.) John 3:26. “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and ALL ARE COMING TO HIM!”

    HYPERBOLE is NOT LYING. You just MISUNDERSTOOD WHAT IT IS.

    IT WAS YOU WHO LIED.

    _________________________

    DENNIS COMMENTARY:

    • Trying to save face, Ratzberg used out of context method as a way to masquerade defeat. As I said, they were not able to make a solid stand in their group wherein the paramount paragon of superior argument was lacking from them. 
    • As i said, god never used hyperbole bec its tantamount to lying. Lets consider the catholic alibi:
    • #1
    • Psalms 48:2
    • [2]Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth (eretz–partitively a land), is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

    • There is no hyperbole. Whole earth speaks of the whole of the partitive land that is only a specific land, possibly Israel, and not the whole earth per se. Israel is a metonymy of its inhabitant. Therefore the joy of the whole earth (israel) speaks of the joy of the people!
    • #2
    • Mark 1:4-5
    • [4]John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
    • [5]And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

    • KJV says, all the land of Judea. Its metonymy speaking of the people in the whole Judea, it doesn’t necessarily mean all people of Judea such as the metonymy, he drinks the whole cup. Its metonymy for its content which necessarily means, drinking the content of it, which may be full or partially full. Therefore all the land of Judea don’t necessarily speak of all people in Judea but partially of its population. 
    • #3
    • John 3:26
    • [26]And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.

    • ALL MEN COME TO HIM is ambiguous. It could be explained in many ways at face value. ALL MEN OF THE WHOLE WORLD? OR ALL MEN OF JUDEA? OR ALL MEN THAT BELIEVES IN HIM?
    • Ambiguous right? Therefore you cannot conclude it as hyperbole. Actually by context, all men seeking baptism speaks of all that believes in him bec baptism is for believers as it say, 
    • Acts 8:36-37
    • And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
    • And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
    • Now Ratzberg, defeated many times in the catholic group, where is the hyperbole?

    Reply to Dennis Butic 113

    DENNIS: //This is how babylon is destroyed. REV 16:18-19 AND THERE WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE MEN WERE UPON THE EARTH…AND THE GREAT CITY WAS DIVIDED INTO THREE PARTS. That never happened to jerusalem in its destruction in 70AD.//

    RATZBERG: THAT NEVER HAPPENED to the VATICAN EITHER, LITERALLY SPEAKING.

    BUT WE KNOW that at the TIME of its DESTRUCTION, JERUSALEM WAS SHARPLY DIVIDED by the JEWISH, SAMARITAN, and the CHRISTIAN FACTIONS.

    In Galatians 4, St. PAUL referred to the JEWISH FACTION as the JERUSALEM under the OLD COVENANT and as the SON of the SLAVE WOMAN HAGAR, who, during Paul’s time, HAD PERSECUTED the CHRISTIANS.

    The CHRISTIANS were the CHILDREN of PROMISE, or the CHRISTIAN FACTION.

    AND THEN SCRIPTURE SAYS, “Get rid of the slave woman and her son.”

    AND THAT FITS PERFECTLY with WHAT HAPPENED to the TEMPLE of JERUSALEM. GOD GOT RID of IT.

    OKAY, YOUR TURN.

    SHOW US THAT VATICAN CITY was SHARPLY DIVIDED in WHATEVER WAY you can IMAGINE.

    And SHOW US HOW GOD GOT RID of IT.

    KAYA MO?

    ___________________

    DENNIS COMMENTARY:

    • No! Its not Vatican but Rome! It would happen in the future. Earthquake would destroy it into three parts. Read the time of its fulfillment 
    • Isaiah 13:1,9,13
    • [1]The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
    • [9]Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
    • [13]Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

    • As you can see, babylon would be desolate. It confirms the account of revelation wherein great babylon be desolate without any craftman or crafts or business and as it say, it happens during the time wherein heaven and earth would be shaken. If the whole earth be shaken, rationally, it would deface the landscape, so as supportive of the fact that great babylon would be divided into three parts and that afterwards it would permanently be lost as it say:
    • REPOST:
    • And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
    • [21]And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
    • [22]And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

    • THAT NEVER HAPPENED TO JERUSALEM. JERUSALEM STILL EXISTS WHEREAS GREAT BABYLON AFTER ITS DESTRUCTION WOULD NEVER BE FOUND. AND THAT, NO CRAFTMAN OR CRAFTS OR BUSINESS OF ANY KIND WOULD BE IN IT. 
    • That reality, was my consistent argument when all the catholics in that group surrndered and afterwards kicked me out! 
    • Regarding the 3part division, catholic say, it is about Jewish, Samaritan, christian faction that would happen in it!
    • Wrong! There was also greek and latin faction. Nevertheless, you will realize afterwards that it speaks of physical landscape alteration as great babylon as i would prove dont concern anything about old jerusalem spiritual or political matters but as itself, a physical land.

    Reply to Dennis Butic 113

    DENNIS: //Lastly, jerusalem was not totally destroyed and still existing. Presently, it is still existing, whereas great babylon would never exist.//

    RATZBERG: WRONG AGAIN, AND AGAIN.

    JERUSALEM’S CENTER OF SPIRITUAL POWER, and in some sense, POLITICAL POWER, is the TEMPLE.

    THE TEMPLE is GONE, NEVER to be SEEN AGAIN.

    HENCE, the GREAT BABYLON is NO MORE.

    APOSTATE JERUSALEM FITS PERFECTLY as the EVIL GREAT CITY that is NO MORE.

    NOW, IT’S YOUR TURN to PROVE that the VATICAN CITY, which you ERRONEOUSLY LABELLED AS THE GREAT BABYLON, is NO MORE.

    KAYA MO?

    ______________

    DENNIS COMMENTARY:

    • I demolished that, remember. You’re just pretending to have fought and won when in fact, I demolished and fed you with dust trails. You were like a confused pigeon on the chessboard spinning around then poop and claiming to be a chess grandmaster !
    • Now, let us repeat the same scenario.
    • WHEN THE PROPHESY SAY, GREAT BABYLON WOULD BE EXTINCT, IT SPOKE ABOUT THE LITERAL LAND WHERE CRAFTS OR BUSINESSES ARE BEING DONE. IT WAS NOT INSIDE THE TEMPLE WHERE CRAFTSMEN DO MERCHENDISE. THERE WAS NO MILLSTONE INSIDE THE TEMPLE EITHER, THUS IT SPOKE OF THE LITERAL LAND THAT HAS CRAFTMEN AND MILLSTONES TO VANISH FROM RECOGNITION OR KNOWLEDGE BUT AS A PERMANENT EXTINCT CITY AS IT SAY,
    • And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
    • [21]And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
    • [22]And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
    • And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

    • Therefore, it was not speaking of the temple Benfranciz “di natuto pero nauto” Ratzberg. 
    • When will that happen?
    • When god shakes the heaven and the earth as it say:
    • Isaiah 13:1,9,13
    • ]The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
    • [9]Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
    • [13]Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

    • What is the result? What would happen to babylon?
    • Isaiah 34:4-5,8-10
    • 4]And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.
    • 5]For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.
    • [8]For it is the day of the LORD’S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
    • [9]And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
    • [10]It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

    • As you can see, a land become desolate permanently as a wasteland wherein primarily it is of pitch and brimstone. It is as how great babylon as revealed by john to be destroyed and permanently be lost and never found as it say,
    • And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

    • Ratzberg, that is Rome not Vatican per se. Possible events in the future, possibly in the rapture, that radically deforms Rome and makes it a coastland which afterwards would be destroyed and divided in three parts as it would be transformed as a permanent lost city. Rome will be the seat of power of catholicism being great babylon sitting on 7hills. The hills of Rome!
    • That cannot be apostate jerusalem, its spiritual and political power and the temple bec great babylon when destroyed would never have craftsmen of any kind in it anymore, speaking likewise of secular and nonpolitical merchandise as to be permanently absent from it as it say,
    • [22]And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

    • That never happened to Jerusalem as a permanent phenomena! You might say, the crafts that would permanently vanish from it were the crafts as being the merchandise of the apostate jerusalem. Apostate jerusalem being gone therefore it follows all that concerns its spiritual and political power including its merchandise would be gone! You might say that right? But then even candle lights would be permanently gone. Is there a distinct religion-political candlelight only associated with apostate jerusalem as the one referred to in the prophesy? Of course none! Thus it speaks about a particular city that would never have candlelight. It was not Jerusalem now as the consequence of its destruction!
    • Rev 18:23
    • And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

    • Moreover, great babylon would be desolate whereas old jerusalem’s spiritual-political aspect is not.
    • Revelation 18:10,16-19,21-23
    • [18]And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
    • [19]And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
    • REPOST:
    • By saying it would be desolate means, it is an existing matter that has no people in it. Jerusalem as speaking of the old Jerusalem’s religion-political aspect as Great Babylon was not so in matters of being something desolated bec if that is the case it should have been a reality that old jerusalem’s spiritual-political aspect is still an existing reality wherein while it exists it is desolate. As you will read further, their claim is that old jerusalem’s spiritual-political power as being great babylon would be gone, so how come is it desolate if its gone? An inexistent matter cannot be desolate bec none of it exists wherein it could be desolate. Something desolated is something that exists and has then no people in it. But they say old jerusalem’s piritual-political aspect is gone therefore it was not the great babylon referred to as desolate.
    • Ratzberg? How did you think your shallow reasoning undo your defeat and all your colleagues in the catholic group i was forced to be ejected when this is the same argument you and i have used?
    • Now, spinnin pigeon, perhaps by pooping on the chessboard you made yourself chess grandmaster but religion is not for pigeons!
    • RECAP:
    • ALL NATION WOULD FORNICATE WITH GREAT BABYLON!
    • GREAT BABYLON WOULD HAVE NO CANDLELIGHT OR CRAFTS OF ANY KIND IN IT PERMANENTLY THEREFORE ITS A LITERAL LAND.
    • IT WOULD BE DESOLATE.
    • IT WOULD BE PERMANENTLY LOST AND EXTINCT.

    • That never is a reality with  jerusalem now or even fitting to old Jerusalem’s political and spiritual aspect as represented by the temple as rationally, speaking of the temple as having no crafts in it anymore suggest the interior temple as a business ground in the past which is false nullifying any relevant connection of great babylon to the temple. The temple therefore has no connection to Great Babylon in that matter as Great Babylon is a business hub whereas the interior temple was never so. Great Babylon has millstones, the temple has none thetefore great babylon is the literal city. It is Rome in its future setting!

    • Lastly, he challenged me saying: NOW, IT’S YOUR TURN to PROVE that the VATICAN CITY, which you ERRONEOUSLY LABELLED AS THE GREAT BABYLON, is NO MORE. KAYA MO?
    • Its Rome not Vatican but it would happen in the future wherein heaven and earth be shaken as it say,
    • Isaiah 13:1,9,13
    • [1]The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.
    • [9]Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
    • [13]Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

    • That speaks of great babylon and not the historic and permanently lost city old babylon bec none of that magnitude–heaven and earth quake– happened before thus logically, it speaks of future events which could only refer to great babylon–Rome–being the only babylon that has not yet become extinct.
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